by Jared Keever

Author’s Note: The name Tony Harris, as mentioned in the following story, is fictitious. In the interest of privacy, and because I have not personally spoken to some of them for many years, I have also changed the names of my own friends mentioned in the story.

aau27It seems strange now, after all that happened, but what I remember most about Herb Baumeister was the absurd, white Land Rover — complete with cargo rack — that he drove around my hometown of Westfield, Indiana. In the flatlands of the Midwest, it was unnecessary. As an ostentatious vehicle, I guess it served its purpose, but it was over the top for affluent, but understated, Hamilton County.

I remember seeing it parked in front of Marlow’s Cafe most Saturday mornings during the mid 1990s, back when I was in high school. Occasionally I would glimpse Herb, wearing an equally absurd Panama hat, walk to the truck with his wife Julie and drive off.

Marlow’s was just around the corner from my father’s hardware store, where I worked on Saturdays during the school year and most weekdays during the summer. The Baumeisters seemed, for a time, to have made Saturday morning breakfasts at the little cafe a regular thing — driving there each week from their 18-acre estate on the southern edge of town.

There wasn’t much strange about that, other than Land Rover. Had the truck not looked so silly parked on the suburban street, I probably would never have known Herb ever ventured into town. But one day the Land Rover stopped showing up. I don’t remember when, exactly, and I don’t recall ever noting its absence.

I certainly wouldn’t remember it today if Herb Baumeister hadn’t turned out to be a serial killer who preyed on the gay men of Indianapolis.

aau11Police now attribute at least 11 murders to his name and suspect he may well have been the serial killer known as the “I-70 Killer” who took nine other male victims on the interstate highway between Columbus, Ohio and Indianapolis.

I knew who Herb Baumeister was before all of that though. That’s because Westfield was a small town.

I graduated from the town’s high school in 1997 with just over 100 students in my class.

Baumeister’s kids attended Westfield schools until high school when, like many students from the wealthier families, they were sent to one of the private schools in Indianapolis, just a 20-minute drive south on U.S. 31.

His oldest daughter was a year younger than me. My sister knew her. His younger son was good friends with my friend Brad’s younger brother.

The Baumeister family was only on my periphery. But I still remember what happened. Most who lived in Westfield at the time do too.

aauI don’t know exactly how I first found out. I have tried to remember, and can’t. But at some point during the summer of 1996, people in town learned that police, while conducting a ground search at the Baumeister estate, had found human remains scattered on the property behind the house.

The news travelled fast. It made the newspapers and the nightly news shows. News trucks parked along both sides of 156th Street, just outside the entrance to the property known as Fox Hollow Farm.

That area, south and west of downtown Westfield, borders the larger and more affluent city of Carmel. Fox Hollow Farm was one of the area’s many horse farms — large, wooded properties usually surrounded by a low, brown wooden fence. Baumeister’s estate was no exception. The Tudor style home sat back off the road and boasted an indoor swimming pool. There were riding stables on the property.

aau14For summer work, many of my friends worked on some of the larger horse farms. They had what I thought was the dream summer job, working outside every day bailing hay, mowing grass, and cleaning fence rows.

Two of my good friends John and Phillip, worked on a farm adjacent to Fox Hollow Farm.

After the initial discovery of bones by the police, authorities swarmed the property, conducting an archaeological-style survey, searching for more remains.

While that was going on, John and Phillip found a few bones in a swale that ran between Fox Hollow Farm and the farm where they worked. They pointed police in the direction of their discovery. They would later tell a group of our friends that their grisly find kept the investigation going and led to the discovery of additional victims.

At the time, though, Baumeister wasn’t being investigated for murder. Police maintained, as they continued their gruesome discoveries, that they were merely investigating the disposal of human remains on the property.

But people, including John and Phillip, were convinced Herb Baumeister had murdered the men whose bones now littered the back acres of Fox Hollow Farm.

aau22Herb gave them both the creeps. He had hired my two friends in the summer of 1995 to do some mowing on the property. Phillip said in a recent email he remembered Herb just stood behind the house, watching them the whole time while they worked.

Herb approached the two in 1996, before police found the bones, and asked them to repeat their summer work. Remembering their uneasy feeling from the previous summer, they declined the offer.

Summer meant I spent most days in town, working for my father. As more and more bones were discovered, the police called in off-duty officers and fire fighters to help with the digging. I remember seeing them in town during lunchtime, eating at Marlow’s or the cafeteria next to my dad’s store. They didn’t say much about the ongoing investigation as they walked to and from their cars, just that they were working on “that property south of town.” I seem to recall selling them a few shovels.

aau15But as the body count grew, police decided they wanted to question Herb. He had been out of town, visiting family in northern Indiana. Before they were able to get to him, though, he slipped over the border into Canada. He was later found dead, in an Ontario park, of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound.

It was about the same time news of his death reached Westfield, that people in town learned police had discovered at least eight bodies on Fox Hollow Farm. That number would later grow to 11.

The suicide meant there wouldn’t be a trial. And for some time, it seemed the story of what happened out at the farm might never get told. But as in most small towns, it didn’t take long for the rumors to start circulating

Officials from the sheriff’s office and members of the investigation team said Baumeister had staged a sort of sexual playground around his indoor swimming pool. There were stories that the pool area was surrounded by mannequins, posed in sexual positions. Most believed that the pool was where the murders took place. They said Herb was picking up gay men in Indianapolis and bringing them back to his home, while his family was away, and getting those men drunk, having sex with them and ultimately strangling them.

Rumors spread that the bodies had been dismembered, burned and buried in shallow graves in the woods behind the house.

Brad, my friend whose brother knew Herb’s son and played in those very woods, told us that Baumeister’s son had found a skull a few years prior to police showing up on the property. The son, it was said, took the skull to his mom who confronted Herb with it. Herb told her the skull came from old research skeleton that had belonged to his father, who was a doctor.

I remember the night Phillip and John told us about the bones they found. A group of about six of us were gathered in Phillip’s backyard. It was late, and we were probably planning an early morning fishing trip. When the conversation turned to Baumeister, it took on a hushed tone like we were telling a ghost story.

aau23That’s how the whole thing felt at the time — like a real-life ghost story we had brushed up against.

We speculated that night about what Brad’s brother must be feeling, knowing he had played in and around Baumeister’s makeshift graveyard.

Our proximity to the horror made it all the more exciting. We didn’t question if the stories were true. For a while it was as if the stories my friends and I were telling each other had their own energy, compelling that they be told. Truth was irrelevant. The retelling of each tale made those few weeks seem all the more interesting and haunted.

aau10But I had grown up working in a small-town hardware store listening to small-town liars tell small-town lies. I knew how simple stories could get blown out of proportion. There was always, through that whole summer, a very small voice in the back of my head telling me it couldn’t be as bad as they said it was.

The summer ended, school started and eventually my friends and I graduated and went separate ways. I never forgot Baumeister. Occasionally I would tell the stories to some new acquaintance or a crowd gathered at a college party, but I always wondered, at least for a few years, if I was repeating lies.

I wasn’t.

aau3Now we all know what happened. The story has been told by reporters and those who worked on television documentaries and even by two authors — Fannie Weinstein and Melinda Wilson — who wrote a book about the Baumeister case titled Where the Bodies are Buried.

Numerous online sources, relying on Bodies and a lengthy interview with Indianapolis private investigator Virgil Vandagriff, retell the Baumeister story. All of the details match, almost exactly, to those I learned that summer before my senior year of high school.

That police ever wound up at Baumeister’s door can be attributed, mostly, to the bravery or foolishness of one gay man who is identified in those stories by the name “Tony Harris” — a name that was created to protect his identity.

aau5Harris contacted Vandagriff in 1994 because he knew the investigator was looking into the disappearances of at least three men who had vanished from the Indianapolis gay bar scene. One of those men was Harris’ friend, Roger Goodlet. Harris told Vandagriff that he believed a slightly built man who went by the name “Brian Smart” had abducted and possibly murdered Goodlet.

His proof was a fantastic story about allowing himself to be picked up from a bar by Smart and taken to a secluded home north of Indianapolis.

Harris told Vandagriff that Smart had taken him to a home, on a large piece or property, where they had “partied” around an indoor pool surrounded by mannequins. Harris said he refused a drink made by Smart, but believed Smart had used cocaine while at the home.

The two engaged in erotic asphyxiation as Harris danced dangerously close to his own murder. Harris did it all, he said, because he was trying to find out more about this man who he believed had given him a fake name. He said Smart had given him the creeps and talked about his sexual fantasies. Harris allowed Smart to choke him during sex. That might have been his end had he not feigned unconsciousness causing Smart to loosen his grip.

Eventually, Harris said, Smart passed out and he searched the home, which was obviously inhabited by a family.

aau13That didn’t match the story Smart had told him about watching an empty house while living in the basement near the pool. When Smart woke up, Harris convinced him to take him back to Indianapolis.

He left the home convinced he had spent the evening in the company of a man capable of murder. His only problem was, he didn’t know where he had been.

The back roads just off U.S. 31 are dark and they all look the same, especially at night. Twenty years ago it would have been worse. If Smart had gotten off the highway well south of Fox Hollow Farm it is entirely possible that Harris would not have known which cross street he was on.

The story was compelling for Vandagriff who had already decided the men he was investigating had probably fallen victim to a serial killer. But without knowing Brian Smart’s true identity or where Harris had been that creepy night by the pool, the story was of little use.

It took nearly a year before Harris saw Brian Smart again. But when he did, he got the license number of the car Smart drove away from the bar.

That number gave Vandagriff the name of Herb Baumeister and led him and Indianapolis police investigators to Fox Hollow Farm. By then, it was 1995.

aau25Police first approached Baumeister at one of his Sav-a-Lot thrift stores. That was the chain of children’s clothing stores — unrelated to the supermarkets that go by the same name — that Herb ran with his wife. The police asked Herb if they could search his Westfield property. He refused.

Police then approached Julie asking for permission, but she had been coached by her husband to refuse the request.

aau2It wasn’t until six months later that Julie relented and let police conduct a ground search of the estate. Herb was out of town with his son. The always-fragile marriage was, again, on the rocks and a divorce seemed imminent. Julie said she had grown concerned by Herb’s erratic behavior and was becoming suspicious so she decided to let police conduct their search.

It was June 1996 and police almost immediately discovered the bones.

Now, almost 20 years later, the old news articles and old interviews that I wanted to believe, and went ahead and repeated, have all been proven true.

The stuff about the mannequins and the sexual playground was confirmed by Tony Harris’ chilling experience.

aau12The unbelievable story about Herb Baumeister explaining away the presence of a human skull in his backyard? Julie Baumeister told that story herself, on the record, more than once.

John and Phillip finding those additional bones? Had I added that to make my own retelling of the story more interesting? Had I told the lie so many times that I now believed it? I emailed Phillip recently to check. I just asked him to tell me what he remembered. He confirmed every one of my recollections.

That he and John got the creeps that summer of 1995 certainly doesn’t seem silly in retrospect.

Julie even went on the Oprah Winfrey Show and told her story of living with Herb.

The story that has now emerged, told mostly by Julie herself, is that Herb was always erratic. She said they had sex fewer than 10 times during the course of their decades-long marriage. She said he never allowed her to see him naked because he was embarrassed by his scrawny body. And it was later reported Herb was diagnosed as schizophrenic as a child but never treated.

aau20Julie Baumeister said she and the children spent a good deal of time away from the home. Herb often stayed behind, sometimes to tend to the couple’s business and sometimes because the couple was arguing. She said she accepted the story about the skeleton because she had other things going on in her life. She never gave it another thought.

As his life and marriage began unravel in 1995 and 1996, Herb grew more violent with his store employees and they suspected he was drinking heavily during the day. The business was failing.

After he slipped into Canada, he was questioned by an Ontario Provincial Police officer who approached his car because it was parked under a bridge. Baumeister told the officer he was a tourist and had grown tired and was just catching a quick nap. That officer later said Baumeister had a stack of videotapes in the back of his car.

Harris suspected Smart had a hidden video camera trained on the pool area the night he visited. And some speculate those tapes were recordings of Baumeister’s murders.

They were not in the the car when Canadian police later discovered his body.

aau21His suicide note did not mention the bodies found on the property or that he was suspected of murder. It only mentioned his failing business and marriage, citing those as the reasons for his suicide.

Police later said they found the remains of 11 bodies at Fox Hollow Farm. Only eight of those bodies were ever identified. They all belonged to gay men, known to have disappeared from Indianapolis.

When police developed the theory that Baumeister was responsible for the nine men left along I-70, Julie confirmed that Herb had travelled that route, for business, over 100 times during the period of time the murders were thought to have occurred.

aauFox Hollow Farm is still there. The sign bearing its name still sits on 156th Street marking the entrance to the estate.

Many of my friends from those days, like me, have moved away from Westfield. Many of our parents, who lived there because it had good schools and was a good place to raise children, have also moved on.

My family is still there.

Westfield is more populated than it was in the 1990s. I don’t recognize parts of my hometown these days.

I was there recently for Christmas. As I drove the once empty backroads that are now lined with crowded housing subdivisions I wondered how many zip past Fox Hollow Farm without ever realizing what happened there.

Herb Baumeister’s known victims: Johnny Bayer, 20; Allen Wayne Broussard, 28; Roger A. Goodlet, 33; Richard D. Hamilton, 20; Steven S. Hale, 26; Jeff Allen Jones, 31; Michael Kiern, 46; Manuel Resendez, 31

Richard Hamilton -- 20 years old

Richard Hamilton — 20 years old

Alan Broussard -- 28 years old

Alan Broussard — 28 years old

Roger Allen Goodlet -- 34 years old

Roger Allen Goodlet — 34 years old

 

Manuel Resendez -- 31 years old

Manuel Resendez — 31 years old

Steven hale -- 26 years old

Steven hale — 26 years old

 

Sources:

Herb Baumeister — The Dark Side — Crime Library

Herbert Richard Baumeister | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

While Julie Was Away : People.com

 

Click here to view Jared Keever’s previous post:

Up Close and Personal: Tracking the Daytona Beach Serial Killer

About Jared Keever: Jared is a full-time writer and journalist living in southeast Georgia. He has lived in Indiana, Montana, Washington state, and Florida. His interests include history, literature and true crime. When he isn’t reading or writing he is usually on a bike or spending time with his family. 

 

 

 

 

158 Responses to The Secret at Fox Hollow Farm: Herb Baumeister Murdered and Buried 11 Gay Men on His Indiana Country Estate

  1. Kate says:

    To this day, I still cannot fathom how Julie was so oblivious to what was going on.

  2. Dave says:

    Under pressure from the Indianapolis gay community, the Indianapolis police asked the Hamilton County Sheriff’s office to take a look and and later, to question Herb. The Sheriff’s reply was “I can’t do that! He is a successful Hamilton County Businessman! I can’t question him.” So 2-3 more went missing before Indianapolis police had the evidence to search.

    Also, the rumor that dogs in the nearby neighborhood of higher density housing had lost their taste for dog food and were turning on their masters appears to be completely unfounded. The story said that the dogs had become used to regular feedings on the human remains Herb had so carelessly buried in the backyard.

    • Jerry Emery says:

      Lazy cops in Indy should have went out themselves to question him. It wasn’t the Hamilton County sheriff’s job. They certainly had more staffing than he did. Don’t try to lay it all on him.

  3. Rick says:

    Very compelling post, Jared! Thanks for allowing it to be posted on ATCB.

    reminded me of a long-forsuppressed

    Having also grown up in the Midwest (Cedar Rapids, Iowa), your story jogged my memory of the mysterious disappearance of Lynn Schuller, a wife and mother of a three-year old son only 2 blocks from my childhood home on August 6, 1972. The inset of the map in the Cedar Rapids Gazette article showing where Lynn disappeared even shows the street on which I lived — Orrian Drive. See http://iowacoldcases.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1992-3-19-MMU-2pgs.pdf. That home also had dense woods behind it. The sheriff didn’t believe the story of her husband (Keith Schuller), a somewhat creepy guy, that Lynn was sleeping when he and his son had left home at 7:30 a.m. on August 6. When they returned home 5 hours later, Lynn and her bicycle were missing. Keith claims that he left a note for his wife and went swimming with his son at a local public pool. According to Keith, when they came back one hour later, Lynn’s bicycle was back in the garage but she was nowhere to be found. Nothing was missing from the house or otherwise disturbed.

    Later that day, Keith called Lynn’s parents and others to report her disappearance. A few searches of the area by Keith turned up nothing. The following day, Keith called the Sheriff’s Department to report the disappearance of his wife. A more extensive search of the woods was conducted with dozens of volunteers. Keith declined to join in that search, ostensibly because he had conducted his own searches and found nothing.

    Keith owned a 6-foot long pet alligator named Pogo (John Gacy’s clown calling?) and several snakes. A rumor started that Keith had cut up his wife into pieces and fed it to his alligator and snakes. The police discounted that possibility, however, because the reptiles were too small to devour a human body. They instead focused their efforts on searching the woods behind the house and the house, after obtaining a search warrant to do so. Authorities even took aerial photos of the woods behind the Schuller home in an attempt to identify recently dug-up ground. However, no trace of Lynn was ever found.

    Without a body and no visible signs of any violent struggle, the sheriff never charged Mr. Schuller with any crime. He continued to live in the house with his son for the next several years, which we assiduously avoided when trick-or-treating at my parents’ insistence. Keith eventually moved away from the neighborhood, possibly because people in the area innately knew what law enforcement could never prove (that he was a killer), and he may have gotten away with murder. According to the linked article (now some 23 years old), Keith lived in Fruitland, Idaho where he was a 6th grade teacher.

    Another somewhat unusual aspect of this crime story is that, shortly after Lynn disappeared, Keith filed for divorce in Linn County on the grounds that she had deserted him. When Lynn’s parents hired an attorney to represent her in that case, Keith dropped the case. Lynn’s parents claim that Keith filed for divorce in Linn County a total of seven times and that he dismissed the case each time, after they had entered the case on Lynn’s behalf. Lynn’s parents had sought to compel Keith to testify under oath about the circumstances of his wife’s disappearance. Keith finally obtained a divorce from Lynn in July 1976, only by filing his case some 100 miles away, in Dubuque County, without the knowledge of Lynn’s parents. In March 1978, a Dubuque County judge granted Keith’s request to have Lynn declared legally dead, with their son as the sole heir of her life insurance policy and Keith as the conservator. Keith later married a woman who he met in Cedar Rapids BEFORE Lynn’s disappearance. That marriage eventually ended in divorce.

    As with your story, this goes to show you that living in a small town is no guarantee of safety. :) No one is completely immune from crime, even in Americana. :(

  4. […] also grown up in the Midwest (Cedar Rapids, Iowa), Jared Keever’s excellent post, The Secret at Fox Hollow Farm: Herb Baumeister Murdered and Buried 11 Gay Men on His Indiana Country…, reminds me of the mysterious disappearance of Lynn Schuller, a wife and mother of a three-year old […]

  5. […] The Secret at Fox Hollow Farm: Herb Baumeister Murdered and Buried 11 Gay Men on His Indiana Country… […]

  6. james says:

    I am a retired Indianapolis police officer. I used to work nights in the area around the Our Place gay bar on East 16th Street and North Alabama Street during the time Herb was most active. On the weekends, the place was busy and the parking lots were packed with nice cars with out of county plates, usually driven by middle aged men. The bar itself was very low maintenance from a law enforcement perspective and I was rarely called there for any problems. I was not aware of Herb until I heard on the news about the bones turning up on his farm and his suicide. I often wondered if I ever saw Herb leave the bar with one of his potential victims.

  7. zack shafr says:

    what is the address to Fox Hollow Farm i cant find it any were

  8. Melissa says:

    I went on a hunt there back in Oct. We used a spirit box to communicate with the spirits. Herb came through. Every time one of the spirits came through Herb would come in over their voice. We went in the basement and my name came across the spirit box. All I was doing was snapping pictures. I captured lots of orbs. Then orbs look different than dust particles.

    • Kellie Ward (paraisters) says:

      My team and i are going to be investigating here next month and are super excited! Someone on our team loves anything that deals with murders! So we should really use the SB7?

      • Janie says:

        Yes! Definitely use the SB7. I haven’t yet investigated Fox Hollow, as my team is in Northern Mi but we almost always can get EVPS through it.

      • Bill says:

        I’ve seen a couple of TV programs on Fox Hollow Farm recently. It caught my attention because they talked to the current owner who turned out to be someone I worked with in the 90s. I doubt he is still the owner as I’ve read that the place is on the market for just over a million dollars. The owner’s wife reported seeing a figure standing near the edge of the woods. The renter, however, said that the ghost of Baumeister tried to choke him while he was in the pool.
        Fox Hollow Farm is on the west side of the Monon Trail at 156th Street in Westfield, Indiana. Since I ride the Monon on my bike I decided to take a ride through the property. It’s well taken care of and horses are still being boarded. Two cars were parked there but no one responded when I yelled through an open garage door and talked into the security cam. I don’t think my friend still lives there.

    • Eric Hardy says:

      How do you get permission to investigate there?

  9. Fox Hollow Farm says:

    To Bill from the comment on 09/30. Not sure if I know you or not, but please don’t come on the property without permission. We have a lot of trespassers and do not hesitate to call the Westfield police. I never know the intent of someone walking up to the house uninvited.

    • I dont blame you that would make me super uneasy! You have the history of the farm to deal with not to mention people creeping around for God knows what reason. So not cool. I can imagine the extra stress all of that brings on. Some people clearly do not think.

    • Not A. Skeptic says:

      I’m sorry but, you have to expect people to enter your property without permission. The property has history and people are curious.

      • Amityville says:

        Agreed. When you buy a notorious crime scene at a discount… it’s because the Ghost of Baumeister still owns the majority share of the property! You got a “GOOD DEAL” because trespassers will inevitably be visiting to hunt for bones and spirits.

        • Lee says:

          They got the house at a discount because it was left to rot and full of mold and wildlife.

        • sheila says:

          There is a difference between understanding that you bought a notorious property and that people will want ot come look around, and those same curious people repeatedly trespassing despite having been directly told “Do not come on my property without permission”. As the property owners, they have a legal right to ask people to wait for permission (and anyone with decent Theory of Mind should be able to understand how much random trespassers would freak out the owners of a notorious murder site and possible freaking.haunted.house). They should expect that people will *want* to come look, of course, but those other people do not actually have a legal *right* to come and look without permission regardless of how infamous the site is.

          Like, cool motive, dude, still trespassing.

          Why can’t you guys just do the polite thing and ask first?

      • Jerry Emery says:

        Then you should probably expect to get shot at during your trespassing if that is your attitude. SMH.

      • Debbie says:

        that’s nonsense, no one has the right to trespass just because their is a history

        • Tony Harris says:

          Thanks Ms. Debbie. However the point of view, one must remember not only to respect the residents in place but also the fact that this is an unofficial cemetery. The failure of the government entities to recover the remains has left this site littered with bones and other relics. In the 1990s the recovery efforts were carefully communicated to me. Lack of funds as well as the efforts to silence the case were verbalized to me by F.B.I. officials and local law enforcement. It was said to me Noone cares what happened to a bunch of f*gs. “. This attitude is what has sustained the negative interest in this site.

  10. Arthur Rosenbarger says:

    A great friend, and ex lover of mine, was Herbs hairdresser. I never met him but I had met his wife, Julie once at the salon. My ex said that Herb was kinda dirty and weird acting one time. And had dirt under his fingernails etc. And he said he had been doing yard work etc….I just think the whole story, sounds like it would be a great Horror Movie…..

  11. I watched a few stories about this article.I watched the ghost adventures program on this story also, and paranormal witness. I honestly do believe that the fox hollow farm is very haunted because of what went on there.I would love to go there with my P-SB11 ghostbox and do some serious investigating!

  12. Matt says:

    I live extremely close to the property. I have strange things actually occurring in my home. Pretty certain it’s not from Herb or any victims tho. Person who had this house before us passed away at a very young age.. If anyone at the current estate is reading this.. Waving from Moontown rd!! God bless.

  13. Janie says:

    I’m sorry but even though people are curious they still don’t have the right to trespass. If I were the new owner I wouldn’t want people snooping around without prior permission either. That’s all they need is some idiot snooping around, tripping and getting hurt then trying to sue them for it. It’s sad but true.

  14. Tony Harris says:

    Please know that the stories are true. The home/property was haunted while Herb lived and is much more active presently than ever before. I am alias Tony Harris. I do assure you the specters were there when Herb took me there and Herb and I did discuss the spirits. Presently I have agreed to seek on the matter. This will be the first time since Herb’s death that I have been interviewed. All other interviews were given as an effort to bring Herb to justice. Please have respect for these victims. Say a prayer for them. Tell them of God’s great love for them. Explain to them that all may be forgiven. Do this now from your location. Thank you and God bless. M.E.

    • Lee says:

      I hope that you’ve had someone to talk to these past 20 years, M.E., even if those conversations didn’t happen in public.
      Horrible thing you were a witness to.
      God bless.

    • A. Williams says:

      I have just recently stumbled upon this. The investigators believed my father was one of his unidentified victims. DNA was never able to prove conclusively. I wonder if you remember him? Jerry Williams? He was very active in that scene in those days. I think even had a management or ownership interest in some of those bars and the local bar guide.

      • Tony Harris says:

        I do apologize for not responding to you. I truly wish there were a way you and I could speek in private. There may be a way to determine if your loved one was a victim. Spirit is very honest and quite sincere.. also very niev. I would greatly apreciated the opportunity to tour the site with you. The very restful feelings visitors get are pronounced. One simply never wants to leave. You might visit Facebook page. Foxhollowfarm”Herb Baumeister I 70 killers Larry eyler.
        I maintain that these serial killers did know each other. My effort is to publish the many connections they shared. If you friend this site I might be able to exchange contact info with you and secure an invitation for you to come visit and ask Herb for yourself. He really is quite harmless these day. M. E.

  15. Tony Harris says:

    Please friend and visit Fox Hollow. Fb. Page. We would like to compile an account of persons whom might have memories of friends and/or loved ones that were involved.

  16. Ocenbrz says:

    I just read a comment from Van dagriff noting Herb might have murdered his older brother. The MO follows his later crimes. This should be investigated since it is quite possible that what created Herb could have been his older brother being a rapist or at the very least sexually experimenting with his younger brother. Or …when Herbs homosexual tendencies become evident his older brother might have bullied him leading to his death.

    In trying to understand what leads people to this kind of behavior it is very important to find the real root cause of his motivation for his crimes. Because it was so distinct. Seeing how Herb first lured his victims to choke him before using the same tactic on his victims seems to point in the direction of early sexual misdirection.

    Though his only motivation to murder his victims rather then just engage in homosexual affairs seem to be to conceal his behavior from his wife and the public.

    I just feel it is important to establish the effects of early abuse on a child’s mental health. If this was the real trigger it will help mental health experts and child protection services, as well a doctors to look into this direction when psychological problems manifest themselves in children and young adults.

    It is important to know this information to help treat victims before their abuse might manifest itself into homicidal behavior. Not ignoring the fact that our societies refusal to understand homosexual behavior as being natural in some human beings have wrongly put homosexuals into the same category as such undesirables as rapist and murderers. I can attest to constantly being battered by pulpits of all of the major religions of this harmful abuse of otherwise non-violent people. As well as seeing repeatedly growing up the bullying of anyone who seemed to fit into the imagined homosexual stereotype.

    It is just important for people to realize where some of this hatred and disassociation came from and the part many of us played in enabling this terrible abuse to create monsters out of human beings. The same can be said about how society has treated children and rape victims. The blame always falls on the victim before it ever attempted to punish the guilty.

    I hope by sharing these cases people will start realizing their part in building up the power and confidence in these kind of dangerous criminals. It is still too common for people to openly praise or collect and/or by redistribute the sexually abusive pornography of these criminal’s the accomplishments of those people who sexually or violently exploit people. You see this when even our youth are more likely to pass along or praise a rapist, exploit a victim, even pay more money to ruin a child for their pleasure.

    There is still a lot wrong with the human race. It is up to us to do a lot more to give children an escape from abuse as well as putting a lot more emphasize on singling out children with behavior difficulties to help them avoid becoming another Herb Baumeister.

    Another important point needs to be made. Most of the parents who abuse children or have family members who are abusing their children will not seek help to protect these children. So it is a waste of time and money to give them rights when they refuse to protect their children from harm. So I applaud that program in Norway that removes children first from abusive parents and then puts those parents through education programs. We are not going to put a dent in serious crime as long as we keep letting abusive parents to have access to children.

    It seems obvious there was some abusive behavior in Baumeister’s home. Whether it came from his brothers or neglect by his emotionally effected mother? That is a mystery begging to be solved. I hope his children received some therapy and their mother some mental health intervention. Her failure to act against his bad behavior or accept her husbands abuse was not an acceptable response or that of a mother concerned about how their constant fighting was not a threat to the well-being of their children. Of course we do not need another generation of messed up adults from this family.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Wow. A great deal of speculation in your posts. Bravo for your research. Really my aplause. 1. Herb married his mother. Juliana was a replacement for a frigid mother. 2. How did Herb kill his brother? Hot tub in Texas? No chance. Monies were sent to Herb by his brother after death of said brother. When Herb was in Wawasee Michigan he did communicate with his (dead) brother . Check the dates on brothers tombstone. It is online. Dates do not match. Western union did certified transaction. Many published articles on this subject have these errors. Sexual abuse in family? Possible but Herb was certified mentally ill. If I called him Brian I could remain relatively safe. If I called him Herb he would insist that I was not safe and insist that I part company with him. Personality disorder. Even his facial muscles would change. Please be reminded F.B.I. assured me they were comeing for me………4 years later they arrived. M.E.

  17. Ocenbrz says:

    Oh I should say good article. As for all of ghost hunting. Please let the dead rest in peace. Feeding into people’s paranoia about dead people haunting us is not doing anything good for mental health patients. As well as those who have suffered such sad loses of loved ones.

    Your ghost movies are entertaining. That is why I looked up this case. However nothing in it is leading people to discovering the true root causes that make people like Herb Baumeister tick. As well as convince these enabling spouses from reporting abusive behavior to the proper authorities if they really do want to keep their children. Too many times I have heard and my own childhood experience with mom’s boyfriend where mom or pop think it is okay to raise your children in an abusive home because it is BETTER then poverty. No, it isn’t. Children are just as effected by what they see as they are by their parents threatening them to keep secrets about abuse. You are guaranteed at least one of the children will be so mentally damaged that it will turn them against you. As well as a legal systems tired of paying with the well being of their own families so that you can keep breeding for an abusive spouse.

    The shame has to be on the abusers but those who witness their abuse and do nothing or little need to answer to the laws of our land. Failure to report child abuse or spousal abuse will lead to charges against you if your children are being harmed. We have to get past these parents who are making life as a serial killer, rapist manageable because they are benefiting from their support.

    Sure Welfare isn’t fun but putting your children into harms way might mean their growing up to be a criminal. Better to be poor then behind prison bars. The courts and juries are not going to go easy on parents any longer so they need to start doing the right things.

    The fact is that many of other people’s children died because Julie wanted to keep pretending she had a happy home. She needs to live with that fact for the rest of her life. I hope she finds some ways to make amends to their families and her children for the part she played in this terrible drama.

    And prayer doesn’t count. And any gods that let other people suffer and die like this do not deserve to be worshiped. The devil is us when we do terrible things. Prayer doesn’t help to stop bad people. People do. So let the dead rest in peace. Put your efforts into helping the living who are suffering from abuse. And educating people about responsibility. There are already too many people selling get out of hell free cards out there. Real peace comes from knowing the truth and teaching others why they need to make better life choices.

  18. Duh says:

    So you’re saying the Herb isn’t responsible, but his wife is for staying? That sounds smart. I am in school for forensic psychology, and he probably would have done this still even if she left. People can come from wealthy and non-abusive houses and still kill people. Let’s put blame where blame is due. He did the killings and took the cowards way out to avoid going to prison. Some man he was.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Please know that many do have this story wrong. I am aliasTonyHarris. It has been my observation that Herb was and is responsible for his actions. Mental illness does not give the sufferer a hall pass to act any way they wish. It is most paramount that family and friends encourage,report,document and yes intervien. I know that Herb was not alone in the Commision of these and other crimes. I have proven this and it is a fact that Herb himself was murdered in Canafa. This story does go on and on. I do indeed disclose proof of what I say in documentation. Herb was very much tormented by those that were murdered. The spirits attached themselves to him while he was alive. I witnessed this phenomenon myself. We have arrived in the age of greater understanding of this dynamic. I will encourage anyone to visit Fox Hollow Farm for themselves and witness this very simple truth. It is very apparent and Fox Hollow Farm itself will wrap itself around you. You will indeed be convinced that the paranormal world does exist. Allow Herb to tell you his story. Allow Herb to confess to murder and even the name (s) of accomplises. This is not a hoax. You will simply realize that you yourself are a very spiritual being. No ceremony involved. Just come on in and sit down to chat. M.E.

  19. Tony Harris says:

    To visit Fox Hollow Farm you should simply mail a letter to 1111 East 156th street I believe it is Carmel Indiana now. This letter might include your contact information so that owners might invite you to attend. Please know that website info remains difficult as many issues have hampered this very controversial property. If you would like to meet with myself please include that request in your corrospondence. My efforts began in 2016 to clarify this story as so very many persons and publications have erroneously reported what is a very factual occurence. Thanks so much. M. E.

  20. Katherine Weinstein says:

    There is also some peace at Fox Hollow Farm. The property in sunlight showcases the pond along the driveway, sometimes with a fishing grey heron and a small red fox in the field to the west. I explored this property before it was purchased by the Graves and enjoyed focusing on the lovely portions of the acreage.

  21. Tony Harris says:

    Ms. Weinstein,
    Please know that at the time you and I spoke on the phone; I was fleeing for my very life possibly my soul. You must understand that the person responsible for Herb’s death was still at large. To say minimally, I was indeed in no condition to divulge anything but what I had already stated to the F.B.I.. Might I please say that you did not hear the entire story. I remain very concerned that your publication and research did not contain any references to any other murderers.
    I deposed to the authorities at that time a description of the person I believed and maintain was the accomplice. This has since been proven. I am very sorry that you and I never had the opportunity to pursue the story further. I am currently interested in a more complete disclosure of my personal documentation as well as a three page letter Herb did leave with me as he had visited my home to in fact murder me before fleeing to Canada. What I am saying is very much proven as fact. Again I suggest any doubters to visit Fox Hollow Farm and ask Herb himself. Thank you very much for allowing me to remain hidden behind my chosen alias Tony Harris.
    M. E.

    • Cory says:

      Absolutely horrifying what you went through. I really hope you have peace and you’re not plagued by nightmares. My heart goes out to you and I’m so glad you didn’t fall victim to this monster. My warmest wishes.

  22. Cory says:

    What I’d like to know is what were the causes of death for these victims? It sounds as if they participated in that dangerous sexual activity and then died as a result. Baumeister then just buried the bodies on his property.

    That farm must be an eerie place at night. I wouldn’t go there if anyone paid me to.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Cory,
      Please know that I was not present at any death. The cause of death for individuals was never determined as no intact bodies were ever recovered. I must use the adage “Herb told me” when discussing cause of death. I am certain there were persons whom died of gunshot wounds as Herb told me there were victims that simply were very difficult for Herb to overpower. You should just ask Herb himself as he does answer questions concerning this matter. I do know a few of the victims very well and even their families. The victims in many instances were drugged then strangled as Herb told me. Please be reminded that Herb’s father was an anesthesiologist and his prescription pads were found in Herb’s possesion at Fox Hollow Farm.
      Wanna sit down and chat about it?
      Send contact info to Graves’ 1111 East 156th Street, Carmel In.
      Herb will be happy to answer your questions.
      This is not a hoax. The place is very haunted.
      M. E.

  23. Chuck says:

    Does anyone or anybody know what kind of vehicles he had owned? From the early 80s

  24. Ghesehgoo says:

    This Mr. Tony Harris has an interesting English grammar. I have a strong feeling that he is simply using our curiosity and giving a long untrue story of knowing things about this killer.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Please know that there is absolutely nothing to be gained by myself or any party in fabrication of any statements made. Why would I leave my hideing place and bring attention to myself? My intention has always been to throw light upon the truth. I have been called a liar from the beginning. First by the F.B.I. and now by audiences. I only ask that you research the facts. It is all there. One must only list times, dates, persons and cases. Everything I have stated has been proven. No shadows no doubts. If you intend to discredit an individual please at least do the homework. My original deposition given to F.B.I. only supports my statements made since. Thank you for your concern.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Ok friends, allow us to try this aproach. My personal journey into madness. The spider Web covered mannequins. The piles of decaying bodies just outside the windows of the mansion. The eviscerated body I stumbled over in the cinder block room “The Screaming Room.”. Let us go further. The streaks of suet running up from the open abdominal areas of the victims. All of these details were documented by F.B.I.. The authorities refused to even go there to look. For years I had to survive with Herb knowing that I knew his secret. Herb was in my home at times. Even with all of this “I survived”. F.B.I. wire tapped my phones. For years I rode in the back of detectives car in order to satisfy this investigation. All of this is documented. Yes friends the devil is real. I begged him to kill me. Death would have been easier. He did decline.

  25. Valerie says:

    Dear Mr. Harris:

    I have been interested in this case for many years now. I truly feel for what you had to go through in all this time. I can only imagine that a person would never be the same again after having experienced something like this and then been let down by the system. I truly sympathize with you.

    In my opinion “audiences” are not calling you a liar – it is just that some of the details that you are currently providing do not in all cases coincide with your initial statement of events that we all know from documentaries and publications on the topic.

    I have always wanted to ask you several questions and since you are on this board and appear to be open to discussion, I will take the liberty of doing so. This is just to fill in the blanks in some regards. Please do not be offended by anything, as I, like most other people, do not know the full story. Hence, why did you stay at that house for the remainder of the night after having had taken a tour of it and noticed all these “irregularities”? Did you consider running to a neighbor’s house and asking them to call the police right away – while you were still on site and could lead them directly to the house?

    Thank you and best wishes on your journey towards healing.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Hello , and thank you for asking. I am at this time takeing every oportunity to clear up things that either I had stated or that have been stated by others erroneously. I call noone a liar. My frustration may become a parent at times. This is because I am niev. To think that I once believed this story would go away.
      I did lye to authorities. I told F.B.I. That I was attacked. I was not. F.BI. could not just walk onto property and take a look around. So I said “”Ok, I was attacked”, now can you go look.”. The fact is Herb was always fairly good and decent to me. With the exception of a few instances where he was being instructed to intimidate me.
      I did call police from the mansion. I was told that I had happened upon a Civil War burial ground.
      If I had ran shrieking from that house, I would never have survived. I had to represent lucid thinking in a place where complete madness had rule.
      It had occured to me that I had to act as if “Everything is just hum drum and normal”.
      Please know that I do not expect everyone to believe me. Most of the facts are so strange that I would have had no credibility at all if I had told these details to police in the very beginning. I had to say some things just to get the attention of authorities. I had to say nothing at all on some subjects just to maintain credibility. Yes, Herb was in my home on ocasion. I just spent Saturday with Virgil Vandergrif, my lead investigator from Fox Hollow Farm. We did discuss that the murders had nearly dropped to zero at the end of Herb’s life. We agreed that my interactions with Herb had indeed saved lives. The authorities would do nothing, I at least provided Herb with an ear to bend. Yes, Herb did speek to me knowing that I was communicating with authorities. I am very fortunate not to have been incarcerated mistakenly. There are people whom insist on my guilt. I harmed noone. M.E.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Valerie, please know the last time Herb was in my home he brought a .38. Herb came in to my living room while media was announcing bodies being recovered at Fox Hollow Farm. We watched some of the coverage and I begged Herb to come with me to turn himself in. I mentioned to Herb that this might be his only chance to seek safety. Herb told me that he had been threatened through his children. Herb stated that he was instructed to kill me. I begged him to disobey and that F.B.I. might be able to shelter his family. Yes, Herb was and is guilty. I truly believe that Herb was murdered in Canada. I am very aware of just whom it was that carried out this act. All of them are dead now. Herb was not alone in this massacre . I was attacked at Fox Hollow Farm. However Herb was not my assailant. S.L.J. was. These are not his initials. His name simply “Sounds Like Joe”.

  26. Valerie says:

    Thank you for your response, Tony. The bottom line is that from your initial statement of events most people who follow this case were under the impression that you only had one encounter with H.B that night and did not see him again until a year later when you took down his license plate number to give to the authorities (and upon that had nothing more to do with him). Now you are stating that you had many more encounters with him and people are having trouble adjusting their mindset. When you re-appeared online to discuss this case in the last little while perhaps it would have been better to give a longer statement to tie everything together and proactively counter any negative speculations. I presume that you re-appeared because you no longer feel threatened in any way.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Valerie, yes I do understand. I had never intended to use this forum. However this forum continues to be very engageing. Many statements made in original investigation were simply to gain the attention of law enforcement. I have never publicly commented after Herb’s death. All T.V. or publications by myself were documented before Herb’s death. I was invited back into this case last year, 2016. I do understand that many will attempt to evaluate my statements in pertinence to prior statements I have made and some statements I never made but we’re construed from documentations. I do invite any interested parties to pursue truth. My intentions and target audience at this time would be to educate students of law enforcement. There is a great amount of healing to be done as well as information to be gathered. The Professor still lives. Herb often discussed this individual. Please find me through Vandergrif and Associates, Indpls. IN. Postal mail would be best. Or. 1111 East 156th. Street Carmel, Indiana. Fox Hollow Farm. Mr. Robert Graves, in care of. I do wish I could speek with you personally. M.E. I am satisfied that a time has passed. Grief and mourning will always present but this situation has evolved and there is much to do.

  27. Valerie says:

    Your explanation is very helpful. Thank you. I think that it will also be of use to others who continue to follow and analyze this case. I still find it so difficult to grasp how you had to go to all these extremes just to get the authorities to go there and look despite having witnessed what you witnessed first hand. It heavily goes to prove that very influential individuals from that community must have been involved in one way or another. You are very lucky to be alive. Hopefully, you have made good things of your life in honor of those who were not so lucky. I doubt that this case will ever be fully resolved. So many questions still linger.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Yes. I do agree. I have met with many mothers of victims. I have maintained friendships with investigators. Now I must mention that I did hide from this for many years. Fear, yes. Also the many details of my encounters were of a personal nature. Those that would be intrigued would do so at my expense. Books, T.V. programs and other publications have never been my property. Many simply purchased works that I had participated in and then embellished or took their research from others whom had embelished. No I make the statement, “None have even touched the the debt of the true story. If they had had the patience to communicate with me the work would have been far more intriguing. “. For instance, forensics never looked up. Pathologists scoured the grounds for remains and evidences. None ever thought to look up. The large intact remains found lying on the ground years later. Where did they come from? They never looked up into the canopy of the trees above. Yes friends, those remains simply fell upon their places of discovery. M.E.

  28. Valerie says:

    Well Tony, experts often have their egos and arrogances, which can prevent them from thinking outside the box.

    I truly feel sorry for those mothers and families. In many instances, these victims were marginalized while alive, and on top of that met such horrible fate. I think that this sorrow emanating from the case keeps many people captivated by it. Some might say that the victims had a poor sense of judgment and made a wrong, costly decision, but in reality we never really know whether the smallest of our choices won’t have negative, long-term consequences.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Valerie, if you were to visit Fox Hollow Farm present day I could provide proof to you of my disertations. The place itself supports my statements. Another instance is the swimming pool. The diving board was at the shallow end of the pool. The going jest at Fox Hollow at that time was,”Don’t drink and dive!”.
      If one was to drain the pool one would have had to use a free standing pump. The floor grate at the bottom of the pool was an inlet for a recirculating system. Not a floor drain. Now. With the pool drained what is it that you now have? A vynil room. What happened to the water? The manor is still on a septic or lift station. Simply not enough room for this volume of water. One might still see visible signs of erosion from the pumps being used in 1996. This was the time frame when neighboring farms reported human remains being washed downstream in Stony Creek. At this time a newer stronger pump was used for the first time. This caused a large washout still visible this day. That in my observation is where these larger deposits of remains had “rolled” downstream to be found by witnesses. I regress, the vynil room. In the final months of Herb’s life someone used a large earthmoving tractor to crush up evidence. This was the tractor I saw on the property years before. We have this tractor on inventory sheets involving the auction that was held there after Herb was dead. Herb could not operate a manual transmission of any kind. Who was it that crushed everything up? I do believe I am explaining far to much. Herb often said ” Get Smart” and then in a positive tone “Now you are getting smart.” Herb also used the alias “Brian Smart”. Was Herb bragging on his intelligence?

      • Valerie says:

        Why did the authorities allow that auction given that the case was still under investigation and all of these objects were potential evidence? As a rational minded individual, I totally believe you when you state that proof of all of this could be seen by the naked eye when visiting the place at the time. It is quite logical that one cannot commit such horrible acts and make them go undetected when living in close proximity to others. This really makes you wonder why people from the more and less immediate surroundings were so oblivious to what was going on. Is there any proof that some of the victims were killed with gunshots or is this just speculation?

        • Tony Harris says:

          Valerie, there is still the sound of a distant gunshot audible in the shower combination locker room across from the pool. The property truly is haunted. It is just a single shot that is heard and can be recorded. As far as the auction, my family was in attendance. This is where all the mannequins were sold as a lot. The baby blue sedan was also sold that day. The buyer tried to hoax the public by planting rope and a murder kit in vehicle. He did confess to the hoax. Herb’s hearse was auctioned. Yes Herb kept an antique hearse on the property. As for your question asked about Herb shooting anyone, yes Herb told me of a man called Albert whom he had shot. Albert I believe is still in the house. I insist that Albert had crawled into the crawl space to escape and bled to death there. The pump room is the room Herb called Albert ‘ s room. If you rest against the wall there you can feel someone holding you very gently. There are many secrets at Fox Hollow, the Screaming Room is where quite a few people were “hobbled” before being taken to the stables. Stable six is the place where persons were taken when they had survived the manor and S.L.J. would game with them there. This and other facts were uncovered only after I revisited the property 2016. Herb was very chatty when he had a few lines of coccain and a couple of Miller Genuine High Life beers. The trees are even haunted. One can catch very fast shadows darting straight up the trunks of the largest trees there. The deer path around the mansion can be walked by the public these days. I walk alone in the night. No lights, just myself talking and praying with the dead. The Monon trail was once part of the property. Now it is of course the Monon. The bridges there were once occupied by Herb and S.L.J.. Graffiti left by investigators is still present. “Bones” with an arrow pointing to a recovery site. “Herb Was Here” painted on a wall. This area is a very peaceful area since being visited by many prayerful groups. The invitation stands for anyone interested. We do continue to grow after death. Our Creator has designed us so that we seek redemption even when dead. I say to you, “Pray for the dead”. This is good for them and very good for the living. M. E.

          • Valerie says:

            I’m absolutely speechless now. As a practicing Catholic, I’m not supposed to believe such things – rather that the dead are at peace in a better world. “Earth has no sorrow that heaven cannot heal.” I really want to believe that in this case.

            It’s too bad that this Albert was never identified.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Valerie, Albert was identified. We, you and I just spoke of him. It is not necessary for agencies to recognize our existance. We love one another in Christ . Albert may never have any mention outside of this story; but he lived, he loved, he laughed and yes he died. Many times this has to be enough. I have learned much on my journey. I have learned to love even the most monstrous of people. My God commands me to love ALL His children. I should have remained dead, there in the dark. S.L.J. bashed my head in. Herb dragged the dead over on top of me so that S.L.J. would not eviscerate me. It took me three days to crawl from under that pile. My faith in God increased with every second. My commitment to the dead strengthened to an overwhelming surge. You must understand a murdering maniac saved my life. God was there. I do not pretend to understand this life, I patiently wait for the next. This world will only fall away as promised . I was attacked in 1995. This attack was not the attack documented by media. S.L.J. thought I was dead. All burned up. Evidence of this was recovered in 1996 after the auction. A postcard was found in the office of the mansion. This postcard was written by Herb to his wife. The one sentence written there informed Julliana of my survival. How is it that she knew nothing but was informed that myself by name had survived Fox Hollow Farm? The postmark did confirm that the investigation had not yet begun when Julliana was informed that I in fact lived.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Valerie , go to. Fox hollow farm “Herb Baumeister ” & i-70 murders “Larry eyler” and victims. I might be able to have a more personal discussion.

  29. Valerie says:

    Tony, I’m very sorry that you had to go through this and I don’t know what more to say. If you start to feel that you opened up too much just ask the moderator to take some of it down.

  30. Valerie says:

    Is that some sort of blog that you are referring to? ‘“Herb Baumeister” & i-70 murders “Larry eyler” and victims.’?

    • Tony Harris says:

      This page is an effort made by myself with the invitation from supporters to tell the story in it’s entirety. There have been many attempts over the years by documentary and other journalists to tell the story. All have used my depositions and interviews to establish credibility in this story. I must tell this audience that I never told the entire diary of events even to the F.B.I.. I will attempt to publish my entire diary and archive. This is free of charge to any audience. This is the only way I know of to make this story absolutely worthless. It is only then that I feel I might not be pursued by authors. Please know that omissions made by myself in this effort are done so only to protect myself. There are those that would accuse me of wrongdoing. I am innocent. There was absolutely nothing more that I could have done, other than killing him myself. There are times when I wished I had. M. E.

      • Kilgore Trout says:

        Oh, the drama!

      • Valerie says:

        I don’t think that anyone wants to accuse you of wrongdoing. After all, it’s only thanks to you that the police eventually got on his trail and this nightmare came to an end one way or another. You were young at the time and crossed paths with some risky people, which could have cost you your life but thankfully didn’t. Everything about this story is extremely bizarre and irrational. As a consequence, it is very difficult to analyze because it just doesn’t follow any rules of logic. The profiles of the victims are all very different as well.

        • Tony Harris says:

          Profiling is simply not effective in this case. Studious observers would have to account for causes of death. The crimes would be categorized by opportunity and cause of death. For instance, any civic function drawing large crowds from outside the atea. Greyhound bus terminal would be ideal place to spot prostitutes and other drifters following that civic function. These people simply would not be imediately missed. Now go to cause of death. The victims found on I-70 before Herb lived on The Farm were in fact killed twice. Strangled and stabbed (butchered). After Eyler was ap prehended victims were found closer to the roadway and only strangled. Fetishes killings. Also account for female victims. S.L.J. was not a homosexual. He was a Cronic masterbator who could not successfully encounter a female. There is no single method. Everything is in duplicate.

        • Tony Harris says:

          Please note that in order to claim your loved ones remains persons were made to pay for the cost of identifying these remains. This was done to offset the climbing cost of this investigation. I’s this the reason only 11 persons were identified out of the 56 bodies that were actually recovered? Noone was told of this detail. This was said to me by F.B.I. in 1996.

          • Valerie says:

            How can they get away with doing something like that??!!

          • Valerie says:

            I know that this is correct, though, because I remember reading about it somewhere in the official files of this case.

          • Tony Harris says:

            I was in attendance at memorial service for Roger Allen Goodlet. Allen as I knew him. His mother hired Virgil Vandergrif private investigator to find out what happened to her son. Without this woman stepping in, her money, her sacrifice, we would not have had ANY success in this case. A mother’s love is truly a force directly from God. Katherine just turned 80 in 2016. A strong persistent force of motherhood. Katherine received just a few crumbs in a tiny box. She did pay for identification of her son. County would not release remains until she paid. M. E. My participation in this case began with Virgil Vandergrif as the authorities insisted that I had stumbled upon a Civil War burial ground. Again Katherine ‘ s money hired Vandergrif and for some time we were all in the wilderness together without help from authorities.

          • Valerie says:

            According to the files, some other families were also actively involved in looking for their sons.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Yes. Please note, only local persons were identified. Herb was found with several state i.d. cards Florida was one of the states. Goodlet was one state i.d. found on Herb’s body. The small group of relatives we were in touch with were many of the identified. It was as if the families that were involved directly with our group were pacified with information. We had already gone to the media. Even Oprah Winfrey. We actually had to smuggle footage of investigation out of Indiana to broadcast from Illinois. One car went east, one car went west. We knew at least a single news release would make it to national media. This was a coverup. Only after this exposure did media vans arrive in Indiana. We had to bring the attention to us. Then authorities were embarrassed into action.

          • Valerie says:

            It’s odd that he would keep those ID cards in his possession. They make it easy to identify those from other states, but it seems as if there was no will to do that on the part of the authorities. As to the victims, I don’t think that all who were identified were from Indianapolis. One was from somewhere else in Indiana.

          • Tony Harris says:

            I speculate as to why Herb was found with these I.D. cards. I now carry obituary of Goodlet in my wallet. He was just a very sincere man. I do recall that I insesantly used Roger Allen Goodlet ‘ s name to Herb. Told Herb details of Goodlet ‘ s life as well as mentioned Goodlet ‘ s love for family. This was a talking point for years between Herb and I. It did seem to agitate Herb at times greatly. Possible that Herb carried these I.D. cards as trophies or maybe another reason.

          • Valerie says:

            Hence, from a rational standpoint, they have a starting point to identify more people on the basis of the ID cards. Why isn’t this happening? Also, what do you mean that it was a subject of discussion for years? Did you have contact with him in the year between having had the encounter in the house (late summer of 1994, correct?) and seeing him again at the bar to take down the license plate number (sometime in late 1995, correct?)?

          • Tony Harris says:

            Yes. This is what I say when I tell you to read the diary. I spoke with Herb’s mother, wife Herb entered my home on occasion, followed me to my work at Public Employees Retirement Fund and had frequently discussed his crimes.
            Everything is very well documented with F.B.I.. Herb entered my home when media vans were in the drive at Fox Hollow. He had a .38. We watched part of the footage, I implored him to seek safety with F.B.I.. Herb left my home then. Again I tell this audience ” Noone was there to stop the killings.”. I was made to believe that this would go on forever. After Herb was killed in Canada the F.B.I. was very good to me. I did benifit from being hidden away. The truth is “Whom was I hideing from if Herb was dead? S.L.J? Yep.. S.L.J.”.

          • Tony Harris says:

            It is only when the true story is told that people accuse me. The cover story is in part my own creation but mostly composed by the authorities. I did know many of the Indiana 11. I would stand on furniture and yell out into bar crowd “Do not leave with this man. He is a murderer!”. Herb would simply take a bow and laugh at me. Herb often told me to just give up, that noone would believe me. Albert was with me that night at Varsity Lounge. Albert was a very strong man and experienced hustler. Albert kept Herb distracted from me as I was turning in on Herb. When I came back from reporting to F.B.I. Albert was simply gone, vanished. Herb told me later about shooting Albert. Albert was just much to capable and aware of Herb. Herb could not drug Albert.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Truth is it was the mothers of victims enlisting the street prostitutes of Indianapolis that stopped Herb’s insane killing. S.L.J. was just a tool. When we as a people make it too hot for them they devour one another.

          • Valerie says:

            I think that I’m completely lost in this story now. Can you give a link to this diary that you are referring to? Hence, the version of your story that people have come to know over the years and that has been plastered all over documentaries/media/publications is hardly the truth, right? It’s actually a convenient version for everybody involved, so I’m not that surprised. I’m fixated on this and cannot move beyond in making all of this come together.

          • Valerie says:

            Putting all of this aside, the bottom line is that by not apprehending H.B and letting him get away from all of this after the bodies began to be discovered, somebody who had a lot to lose pulled the plug on all of this.

          • Tony Harris says:

            I would suggest that someone had much to gain. Impossible to prove anything. Therefore not much to lose. If someone were to visit Fox Hollow Farm, many things would become relevant. It is a peaceful place. The spirits there will tell their story themselves. I am the only survivor. I am the only person left who truly knows the secrets of that place. You understand there was a farm before Fox Hollow and I am not certain of the Era before that farm. I did post the name of the page my supporters established for me. Just friend the page, read over the articles, then you might begin reading installments of my diary. Do not be surprised if your perspective even of myself does change. I know far too much of that place. Noone will enter those dark woods alone with me. I am innocent however I am forever changed. Pay special attention to articles on young Daniel Bridges. Eyler was convicted and sentenced to death for that murder. Eyler confessed to dozens of murders in an effort to convince authorities that he was innocent of Bridges murder. Why? Well because Eyler himself wanted to take down The Professor. Each quit college freshman year. Each had The Professor for freshman course in library sciences. Same exact method of grooming used in every instance of creating a murderer. S.L.J. was Herb’s accomplice and became Herb’s successor. The same as Herb was to Eyler. S.L.J. died in 2007. What did occur in 2007 in relation to Fox Hollow Farm? I know. I have met him. I know his name.

          • Valerie says:

            Is there any way to access that page without having a Facebook account? I got tired of that platform a few years ago.

            Now, why do you say that it would have been impossible to prove anything? The bodies were on the property. If H.B had been charged with these murders, there is a high probability that there would have been a conviction. At that point, he would have brought the other one down with him. That’s how these things function.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Please do nt be niev. I have tried to expose them for decades. There is absolutely no way to convict even one. The only effective aproach is to turn up the heat until they simply switch out. 1996 at Fox Hollow Farm was such a switch out. S.L.J. stood in the darkness of the kitchen door frame and simply gunned down any one whom objected to his authority. Herb was present and subjugated to S.L.J.. Authorities know this fact. As for the page, I am not aware of another way to access. If it were safe for me I would comm. Directly but you see even there I use another alias. The Professor still lives. With blood on his hands and many pointing a finger at him. I do not fear being killed. Far worse than that. I fear the dark things they are able to do in this life. My God has domain in my death.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Maybe you could simply mail a letter to the estate. 1111 East 156th Street, Carmel, Indiana. Occupants do know how to contact me. You might include your contact info if you are comfortable with that. I do have several small groups that meet for Blessings and discussion.

          • Valerie says:

            Old fashioned letters have something to them, but they take too long in today’s fast paced world :-)

            What happened at Fox Hollow in 2007? Was there a change in ownership? Also your “objected his authority” line is very interesting.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Let us stop with questions. May I lead in interesting bantor? Herb’s favorite song “Blue Beau” Linda Ronstadt.
            Nickname for myself “Sport”
            Alias for himself “Brian Smart”
            Expression on positive “The more the merrier,, the more the merrier”
            Expression on negative” Get smart” then followed by “Now you are getting smart”
            No Herb did not kill his brother.
            Herb wrote no cursive at all. Only his signature.
            Herb habitually used cocaine. Snorted it. Only two lines at a time. Very sophisticated fashion.
            Herb never once wore sneakers, always dress shoes. Yep even at the farm.
            Herb had only one request for after his death. A family photo of he and his children to always hang at Fox Hollow Farm . This request was declined upon the objection of his children.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Saitor Yep saitor

          • Valerie says:

            What is the purpose of all of this? It’s obvious that as a human being he had his habits, preferences, likes, dislikes, etc. Considering his actions and choices in life, though, he doesn’t deserve to be talked about, unless these factors somewhat contribute to a better understanding of this case.

          • Tony Harris says:

            My apologies Valerie. I deal with so very many questions daily. I do get emotionally exhausted. There are those whom would use info in an effort to manipulate the goings on at Fox Hollow Farm. You cannot comprehend this until you visit the site. It is in fact ALIVE. Emotions are a key factor while visiting. Authority is a major factor during any visit. One must stay in control and in my case, I must not only control my own well being but the subliminal efforts of others. It would be advised to pay attention to smaller less negative facts. Stay positive and evil has no effect. I do intend to keep my mind positive. I get that people concentrate on Herb’s evil persona. I will always maintain that Brian was a good guy while Herb was evil incarnate. Personality Disorder.

          • Tony Harris says:

            It is only on this blog that I use the name “Herb”. The darkness that this name evokes is tremendous to me. This is why I would introduce you to “Brian”. Brian is the one that would tell on Herb to me. Brian would always beg for help controlling Herb. This is instrumental in comprehending this case. Brian was jovial and pleasant. I ask you to look at photos of Herb. I can tell by muscular definition in his face as to which personality he was in when each photo was taken. You try. There is a dramatic difference in photos. Try turning photo upside down, cover photo then using a cut out only look at eyes, chin, mouth , jaw line etc. Personalities will even affect structures on an individual’s face, posture, even height. Left handedness right handedness etc.

          • Valerie says:

            If this helps you cope with the aftermath of all of this, M.E. than by all means, but introducing this perspective is in a way excusing his behavior. All circumstances point to the fact that his alleged actions were planned and deliberate, and he was sane enough to live a double life for a very long time.

          • Tony Harris says:

            No excuses here Valerie. Attempt to explain how success in business can go hand in hand with utter madness. Guilty on all charges. Yes. Mannequins might be explained by efforts at early treatment that was discontinued. The clinical term would be “Externalizing “. Life gaurd statue, woman in kitchen mannequin, young male mannequin etc. These were touchstones that would allow him to “Store” personalities and yet concentrate or choose which personality might be most useful for that occasion. The act of disclosing behavior between personalities might indicate that each was aware of the actions of the other. Please do not be dismayed by my shifting gears here. This is all relative as to how and why I would survive. I would only speak to Brian at any given time. Twice I spoke to Herb. Each time I was quickly removed from his presence. It was explained to me that evoking Herb would be extremely dangerous.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Please allow me to point out that I began leaving comments on this blog in an effort to enhance the experiences of visitors to Fox Hollow Farm. I will not pretend to prosecute the guilty. At this stage of the experience one could simply ask Herb oneseelf. I simply ask that you ask Brian instead. My intentions are to pray for the dead and pray with the dead. All of the dead.

          • Valerie says:

            Nobody is asking you to prosecute anybody, M.E. You are sharing your experience and personal thoughts. I understand what you are trying to convey; however, I strongly believe that mental instability does not give anyone the right to hurt others.

            From what I can see, this experience has strongly affected your life. You seem like a very kind and intelligent individual, and I will pray that you can to some extent free yourself from all of this.

          • Tony Harris says:

            It has been my observation that Mr. B. Or Mr. Baumeister as his staff and constituents called him, took care of business and family. Herb was a killer. Brian was an adolescent personality stuck in the early seventies. Disposal or cleaning up of the victims would have been S.L.J. in the early days of the involvement of Herb. I.R.S. has proven that S.L.J. did work for Herb. As S.L.J. began to realize the opportunity of extortion he cleaned up far less. This left Mr. B. with a problem. Who was going to clean up? All of the personalities began to take some role in covering up the crimes. The family would not be destroyed by Herb’s actions. Each personality was aware of the crimes. I remember being told ” How beautiful the lips were as they swelled turned blue and cracked, how by inserting his fingers into the victims mouths he could grasp the tip of their swollen tongues. How the engorged eyes would display. “. This was told by Brian as he sat with his eyes closed as if some sort of an ecstacy. Yes, Brian was guilty. I have never hidden behind delusion. It would be impossible to tell this story if not first to attempt to educate an audience about personality disorder. When Brian first inserted his fingers into MY mouth and grabbed the tip of MY tongue, I knew he had absolutely no boundaries in his mental illness. All personalities were part of the killings.

          • Valerie says:

            It’s definitely a good sign that you recognize that, M.E. It shows that you are on the right path towards healing.

            Were any efforts made to attempt to bring S.L.J to responsibility for his actions? Did he live a relatively normal life after the fact?

    • Tony Harris says:

      Homework: read the articles posted on that page. Attention to dates, names causes of death, confessions. Then friend page and read my entries as I progress through entire diary. Herb knew Larry Eyler. The Professor groomed students with personality disorders. When The Professor was finished with one subject he simply turned one against the other. There were always two murderers. The evidence is paramount. M.E.

  31. Valerie says:

    It’s definitely a good sign that you recognize that, M.E. It shows that you are on the right path towards healing.

    Were any efforts made to attempt to bring S.L.J to responsibility for his actions? Did he live a relatively normal life after the fact?

    • Tony Harris says:

      Sounds like Joe. S.L.J. Noone even knew of him before I brought proof of what he did. I introduced that proof in 2016. I have always hidden from S.L.J.. If you think Brian was horrific, there is no limit to what S.L.J. was capable of. Completely demonicly possessed. The demon resembled a frog with three nostrils and a band of teeth. The teeth are not grotesque but evident. You as a Catholic might know the Bible verse that describes this demon. S.L.J. was and is without remorse. It is not safe to know his name , even this day. I did pull off the road and telephoned ahead with his name before my arrival. Turned out that they had his name but not in any context to his crimes. I just wanted my hosts to know that I in fact had discovered the truth long before my meeting with them. The Frog and S.L.J. are linked by a chain. This does occur at Fox Hollow Farm. I do have photos of this apparition. Compare that photo with obituary photo and it is a match. Another Secret of Fox Hollow Farm.

    • Tony Harris says:

      I still have his machette. Two foot long. I stole it from him when he was operating the earthmover. Crushing and crushing and crushing all those bodies with that earth mover. Yes Valerie I realize I will never be “Normal”. Never again will I love this world. I will patiently wait for Father’s arms.

      • Valerie says:

        You deserve to be normal and to love this world. Don’t let anybody take that away from you. I admit that I don’t understand why you were there – not once as was initially alleged – but as it now looks many times; however, if you truly don’t carry any guilt, just forgive yourself for even being there and try to carry on.

        Was S.L.J an alternative personality of H.B, or a different individual?

        • Tony Harris says:

          S.L.J. was an employee at Sav a Lot in the beginning. The Professor had introduced Brian to S.L.J.. S.L.J. was intended to accomplice Brian and then replace him. Valerie, I am not depressed. I simply realize that this life is intended to fall away. I embrace very much my God’s intention. We are all intended to die. We are all born with the intention to be in Father’s arms. No one is created to be evil. Why don’t you ask me about the video tapes? Everyone always does. They were not in the vehicle in Canada. This was a prompted interview by authorities. They did not want to spend resources looking for the tapes. If they had been in that vehicle then Erich and Brian would never have had room to be in vehicle. The only tapes that were recovered were the entire collection of Dallas the t.v. series. Be reminded, S.L.J. killed Brian. The gun used was never recovered. Three attempts were made to collect palm print from Brian’s body. This was an effort to connect Brian to I 70 killings. Each attempt at palm print failed. Brian was creamated in Canada with no prints taken. The entire thing screams “COVER UP”. It was not Brian’s palm print found at scene on I 70. It was S.L.J. that left that print. No budget to continue looking for second killer.

        • Tony Harris says:

          As I told you in the beginning, your opinion of me would change. I am inocent however I do know the secrets. With all I have told this audience, I have yet to reveal the truly most powerful secrets of Fox Hollow Farm. It is ALIVE. I insist that when one kows how to take authority in that place, truly powerful things happen. When you go there, run up the main staircase. Hold no handrails. I can tell you exactly where you will fall. As a matter of fact that step is worn. The toe of your shoe will leave a mark as your left foot will be knocked away from that step. Happens every time. The shadows in the mirrors. This is not the dead. This is the pranks the Shadow People play on visitors.

  32. Tony Harris says:

    As far as authorities are concerned there is no S.L.J. at least not until 2016 when I proved he existed. Now think, who commits suicide by shooting themselves in the forehead. The true story is that Brian was shot twice. Once in the forehead and once through the roof of the mouth. His body was placed on a mound of sand and dead birds were placed around him. His feet and lower legs were crossed and his fingers interlaced on his lower chest. Not a suicide. There is no suicide letter. Brian left a three page letter with me. First page was family regrets second page was illustration of Fox. Hollow Farm Sites third page was was his explanation of why he had to die. This letter remains hidden in a place called Butcher Shop Road in Armstrong Valley Pennsylvania. An Amish community where I hid from S.L.J.

    • Valerie says:

      I’m sorry – I didn’t mean to appear as if I’m judging – I’m not. I didn’t make it a priority to ask about the tapes because I always figured that he would not have them while crossing the border. This element always seemed to me like an aside fabricated by journalists to spice up the story. With regards to the palm print, was it just sloppy police work? Don’t tell me that S.L.J. had the ability to make such arrangements.

      • Tony Harris says:

        The print simply did not match Brian. Indicates another murderer. Video tapes were used to control participants in murder. No one would tell if they themselves were on tape committing the murders. Also, extortion. Do you really think that all that money came from selling used clothing? Whomever goes to Fox Hollow Farm, go to the circle in the trees. The circle where nothing grows but grasses. Empty yourself of all emotion. Walk counterclockwise while dumping emotions. Call out” I LOVE YOU IN CHRIST. Over and over. Begin walking the deer path through the wood. No lights are needed. The path will illuminate before you. Pale blue silver white. Continue on the path calling out your love in Christ. Spirits will be attracted to your love. Wherever there is evil there is always far more good. You must play this site in Christ. If you go there expecting evil it will not go well for you. Fill yourself with good and spirits will enjoy you and yes pray with the spirits. Yes there were video tapes. Many. If those tapes had survived there would have been no end to their misery. I would tell you of their demise but that is in my diary. Everyone on those tapes was deceased in 1996. No evidenciary value. If you dare to visit the DEEP WEB. or DARK WEB; I do not advise this, there is one surviving tape that I know of. It shows a man imprisoned in The Screaming Room. He is on a full size bed. He has no tongue. He suddenly levitate as if in the mouth of a demon. He is violently crushed on tape. No persons are seen he is just unexplainably crushed.

  33. Valerie says:

    I wouldn’t want to view anything like that. The potential evidence-value of the tapes is that they could reveal to the authorities who else was involved in all of this. Such tapes can only control people to some extent, as different individuals can strike various bargains with the authorities in exchange for information. Hence, we see at times that very implicated people get lucrative deals because what they know can help solve a bigger problem.

    Are you saying that many more individuals were involved?

    • Tony Harris says:

      Valerie, the very existance of those tapes hinges on my depositions given in 1994. Noone else ever seen them, that they would say anyway. There is no evidence that the tapes even existed. It would totally rely on my statements to say that the tapes were or are real. For instance, I was video taped by Brian. I did view that tape. As far as evidenciary value, this was a time before the internet. Would you want your loved ones murder that was never taken seriously by authorities to then be discredited online? It would be just another way to take a person’s dignity. There was nothing on those tapes that could possibly be deemed “real” by authorities. They were very very extremely bizarre. Pentacles and shadowy figures did abound. I would go as far as to say they were otherworldly. They would surely have been discredited as rediculous.

    • Tony Harris says:

      It might be easier for me to just say ” I was attacked and this guy is a serial killer”. Boom. It could be that this is why I minimized. If I had told authorities everything it would have sounded impossible. My credibility would have been absolutely zero. I told them I was attacked just to get them to go and look. They would have easily seen for themselves. Decades later and still the truth cannot be told. What a battle and I did not choose this battle. Should have left it alone but guess what, It ain’t over. Do you truly think that I would return if the killings had not started again? They have. I know their names.

  34. Valerie says:

    I’m speechless at your last two sentences, M.E. Was there anything that the victims had in common besides the obvious? How did he convince them to go home with him despite being much older, in most cases, and not all the interesting? Please don’t tell me that the promise of alcohol and an indoor pool was enough.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Money. They were promised money. Brian was indeed a fascinating man. I myself was once placed in a chair and then that chair rose from the floor possibly two inches. I would not say that he was not interesting. My being levitated was excused as a result of being strangled. It was said that I simply became lite headed. This is in the deposition 1996. Please know that Albert did know Brian and had an experience with him the season before. The two had argued at that time as well. You see Albert was a good friend of mine. Valerie, where were you? Why did you not crash through that door and save the day? I gather that you are not a super hero either. I did not fail. WE failed. Society failed. Everyday is another oportunity. Think Monon Trail. It runs right through Fox Hollow Farm now. That used to be Fox Hollow Farm. Think Mackinac Bridge and Mackinaw Island. Think about it. It is just right there in front of us all. Hidden in plain site. It is the only way I can let them know that I know. Name dropping on an open forum. It could be that I am inciting them, drawing them to me by speeking now. I am certain they cannot resist. Brian gave me 80k the last time we spoke. I should not say that he gave it to me, he simply left it there and died. These facts have always been kept guarded. Code word was Minnesota. Oops dropped another clue. The other farm is in Minnesota. Noone has ever peeked into that barn. I tell you now “I know”.

  35. Anna Molly says:

    Reading though this “conversation” I am convinced “Valerie” and “Tony Harris” are one and the same person. Is someone playing games for attention? Mark Goodyear?

    • Tony Harris says:

      Hello Ms.Molly. It is extremely easy to find my name. I have always been very available. It is out of courtesy and good form that one does not post it. I would very much question your manners and then go on to assess your upbringing. It must be a power trip to reveal a thing that is even on facebook as I have published it myself. My phone number is also on Fox Hollow Farm. Facebook page. Just saying. It is not my place to raise you but I will ask that you better yourself, even a little.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Ms. Molly, long ago I had came to terms with this unpleasant notoriety. I am no longer in hideing. My names is no longer Tony. May I ask you please; how would one seek employment, live quietly, or any other mundane activity with this dark story following them? This is indeed why I am so harsh with you. When a person is clearly found to be inocent and also credited with saving many lives as well as returning loved ones remains to grieving families it might be a gratuitous act to respect their privacy. I do hope to discuss with you at Fox Hollow Farm this summer. No I am not upset with you, however I do encourage good manners. Mitchell is my name these days.

  36. Valerie says:

    I read the start of your diary, M.E. Hence, “that night” did indeed happen. From the perspective of time, do you regret having stepped foot into that house? Do you ever wonder who you would be today if it weren’t for that night? You write very well. The piece accurately portrays the climate of those times.

    • Tony Harris says:

      Thank you so much for reading. I missed you for a couple of days. Believe me when I tell you that you are indeed a tough individual and compliment myself very well. I think I enjoy you. Teeheehee. You must have friend ed the page. I hope this opens a new dialogue betwixt you and I. As far as regrets, I do have them in abundance, however, I do not regret that night. I found Allen Goodlet. That was my intention. Kathy did have her memorial for her son. This very dark ordeal has cemented my faith in God. I have absolutely no doubts at all in our liveing God. I cannot be sure that my faith would be as strong if this were to never have happened. I will reiterate, I simply wait for my turn to be in His loving arms. Praise His name and keep It Holy!

      • Anna Molly says:

        Anyone moderating this place? Must the rest of this deal with this guy posting to himself, pretending to be a woman who by golly adores him. Off topic posts…take it to a private place, spare us.
        He is having WAY too much fun with this.

      • Valerie says:

        When I read the diary, the thing that came to my mind is that over the years the general public has been fed a very selective version of this story through mainstream sources of information. Thinking back, some of it is at odds with things that are in the official files of the case. For example, we were told that the modus operandi was spontaneous; however, the files mention that some of the victims had been seen with H.B weeks before their disappearances. If any decent effort had been put forward by the authorities, this would have been solved sooner. Things don’t happen in a vacuum, after all. The absurdity of all of this always reminds me of the absurdity in Franz Kafka’s “The Trial.” The only difference is that this happened for real, and that’s a very bitter pill to swallow. Another absurdity is that they didn’t really search the inside of the house “because they were finding what they were looking for outside.” Well, how did they know what they were looking for?

        • Tony Harris says:

          Great homework Ms. Valerie, it is all there. One simply has to compare dates and incidents. The manor was searched in 1996 and again in 1997. That is when the photo postcard was recovered. This postcard provides proof that the wife knew. The post card was found behind a picture in the office. Contents did mention that I was not involved and could not be trusted by those whom were involved. Written in Brian’s handwriting and did mention my entire name. This postcard has since vanished from our archive. Please continue to read the story of Daniel Burges. Larry Eyler. Bodies found along highway leading to the home of Eyler ‘ s mother. Read about Eyler ‘ s mother’s description of Brian, a slender man that accompanied Eyler on visits to Eyler ‘ s mother’s home. Eyler ‘ s confessions involving dozens of murders then denial of the single murder that convicted him and sent him to death row. Compare Eyler ‘ s effort to seek refuge in Catholic seminary to Brian’s efforts. Compare college freshman year on both. Very nearly identical paths to grooming for murder. The Professor was department head of Library Sciences. He had access to profiles on mental health of those whom he would groom.

        • Tony Harris says:

          Attention; Ms. Valerie, please note copywrite dates on journalistic efforts. Pay attention to the twists and turns of how the stories and documentations change with time. Know that these efforts were made before the internet. F.B.I. never thought public would ever have access to these depositions. Be reminded that statements made directly from suspects and witnesses differ from actual FB.I. articles. Yes I did lie in 1994. I did this to establish credibility. I stated that I was attacked. I made this statement in an effort to provide authorities with materials to obtain a search warrant. I muted down the truth because noone would believe the truth. Again, credibility. I never met Eyler. F.B.I. introduced crime scene photos of Eyler murders to myself in 1996. Why? Eyler was deceased by then. F.B.I. did attempt to link these killers. Budget would not allow deeper investigation. I believe strongly that The Professor who was president of Indiana A.C.L.U. at the time did intervene and stifled further investigative efforts.

          • Valerie says:

            Were you able to confirm through official documentation that L.E. and H.B had classes with this particular Professor? Perhaps through former school colleagues of the two that they knew each other? If they attended classes and/or lived on campus, people must remember them to some extent.

            Regarding what you said to the FBI. Perhaps, if you had called directly from the house and stated that you are in danger there, they would come and they would see all the evidence. A lot of the men disappeared in late June and July 1994. Hence, I can only imagine that the Police would stumble upon substantive findings there around that time.

          • Tony Harris says:

            I did call 911 from the house. I was told that I should sleep it off. The truth as I then learned was simply unbelievable. Regarding the college records; this does appear in histories of both murderers. Freshman year required course Library Sciences. Professor as Department Head. Both dropped out their freshman year. Look into Eyler story. The Professor paid Eyler ‘ s rent, paid defense attorney fees to release Eyler on previous charge of murder, then paid victim to drop charges. Victim was hitchiker that deposed of two males one named Brian, that picked him up and then tricked him. Hitchiker goes on to state that he was stabbed and slashed. Medical records substantiate this documentation. The Professor did pay attorney fees to keep authorities off of Fox Hollow Farm for two years. This is all evident when you read Eyler and Baumeister stories. The trail of the tale. Please note that S.L.J. has no documentation at all. Clinical evaluation, college, psychiatric treatment is the only way to match him in. S.L.J.. did visit the Charley Manson ranch in California, then went to Thailand before the Tsunami. This would be his trail. He did stay periodically off the continent for some time. That is entirely another story.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Please note: present day murderers (there are always two) do fit same criteria with much improvement on position and accomplishments. Brian will tell their names when asked.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Valerie, now that you have a firm bite on this material, I must intrigue you. In order for your composition to be hard and tough you must have material that is not published this day. Everything that I have stated to you is an effort again to establish credibility. Ask yourself, why WAS I permitted to live? How do I know EVERY detail? What intentions did Brian have for “Sport”? With further contemplation you might realize what my intended purpose was. Remember the quarrel in 1996. The struggle for authority. Brian was loseing. Conversations did occur betwixt Brian and myself. Remember the grooming process. Who was it that did attack me? This attack was a premature effort. I rely entirely on prayer and our Living God. My mind is very much compromised by this very dark encounter.

          • Valerie says:

            It’s odd that the dispatcher would tell you to sleep it of. You were calling from a wealthy Carmel home. This individual should have no reason to believe that you need to sleep anything off. You could have been the President’s son stranded in that house and needing help. I know as a fact that they were able to trace addresses through residential lines at that time because a friend of mine had mistakenly dialed 911 when playing with the phone around 1993 or 1994, and the police came to check, and then ended up charging her parents a fee because of the mistake. The dispatcher should have faced legal repercussions for this.

            Are you saying that SLJ attended the same college and received psychiatric treatment at that time? Did you tell the FBI about him back in 1994? Since they had him handed on a silver platter, why didn’t they try to put him away? I mean if they didn’t know of him and had budgetary constraints they may not be bothered to look, but they practically had him handed over on a silver platter. If he hung out on the estate that often, someone must have seen him there.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Ok. Comedy hour.
            I call 911 and say:
            There is a naked serial killer sitting here with me and a bunch of dressed up mannequins. He is doing cocaine and drinking Miller Genuine High Life beer. Oh yes and by the way, I do hear all these whispering voices telling me how they have perished at his hands. It would be best if you send authorities and have them to imediately enter the downstairs where there is an indoor swimming pool and a corpse sitting on a floor drain to give easy cleanup. Oh yes, and also please avoid the backyard as the piles of dead bodies are most oderious.
            Yep, it is all about credibility these days.

          • Valerie says:

            M.E., 911 dispatchers should have a responsibility to respond to every situation. If they had the luxury to judge, many individuals would be ending up dead. Imagine, if something had happened to you that night; the dispatcher would be partially responsible as well. I believe you when you say that you had indeed made the call. That dispatcher should have been held legally responsible for failing to help you. As to the call, you didn’t have to go into these grotesque details. It would be sufficient to say that you are at the house with another individual who is threatening/attacking you. If they had come, they would see the rest on their own.

            I know that this is probably frustrating for you. You are probably thinking: “it’s easy for her to say that, she wasn’t there – she wasn’t under the psychological pressure of being in the situation.” I totally get that. That’s why I’m not judging, just exploring different angles of this and perhaps somewhat thinking aloud.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Valerie, if I thought too long and too hard about whom to blame I would just go through life blameing. I just tell the story.
            Read documentation on. Detective Mary Wilson. Here you will find my then legal name as the F.B.I. again spilled the beans.

  37. Tony Harris says:

    I was an F.B.I. informant. My name should never have been documented and released. Pay attention to date of that interview. Brian was still alive. Wow. Very nearly got me killed…….again.

    • Valerie says:

      I get you. Where I come from, we don’t trust that the authorities would ever be able to protect us in such situations either. How many times have you changed your name in the past 20 years? Were you actually in hiding under FBI protection? This would be another Kafka-like absurdity.

      Tell me about Vandagriff’s assistant. You were close, right?

      • Tony Harris says:

        Just got off the line with Virgil. Vandergrif and Associates 317 248 9295. This number will connect you with the most complete archive. I do ask that you leave your contact info for me. Just say Valerie. They will know who you are. I do want to participate in your project. Thanks, M.E.

        • Valerie says:

          M.E., I’m not trying to use you for any project. If that were the case, I would have told you from the start. Doing otherwise would be very unethical regardless of the objective, motive or domain. I am just having a conversation with you because I am interested in this case. I hope you don’t disappear.

          • Valerie says:

            P.S. Now, any of these “characters” who think you are having a conversation with yourself can call there and claim to be me.

          • Tony Harris says:

            We are very interested in engageing the public.. I assure you that security measures are in place. I would like very much to have a more private dialogue with you Ms. Valerie. Understand that we are a very small gathering of mostly Catholic persons. We are sincere in our efforts to do the very best possible. I did think you were pumping me for info. Now I am certain I am in error. Please know my organizer passed away this last winter. I sure could use your journalistic style. If you feel comfortable, please make contact. This would certainly place you in a position of intimate knowledge.

          • Tony Harris says:

            I do have permission to mention Connie. Connie (no last name) was very dear to everyone whom ever met her. This was Virgil ‘ s secretary. A very patient woman with the most tender disposition. We did lose Connie to breast cancer some years back. I should not mention Connie without mentioning Madam Wanda Speaker. Wanda was a dear friend to Connie and myself. Wanda was a survivor of Aushwitz Concentration Camp. The Nazis had experimented extensively on her and her twin sister. Both were deemed to be psychic mediums by the Nazi party. Wanda ‘ s twin sister did not survive the experiments. Wanda did also pass into perfection some years ago. I share this with you so that you might see for yourself the inner workings of our organization.very personal. Very sincere band of strength and joy .
            When you have seen the devil you no longer fear.

  38. Valerie says:

    I will contemplate this :-) Just to reiterate, I’m not a journalist who is trying to benefit from this information. Having re-read some parts of the conversation, I can somewhat see where this idea could have come from.

    • Tony Harris says:

      You understand that for every negative character we must have a polar oposit. This has always been the case. We build our number to our minimum. We struggle through. We triumph. We all remain very close through the years. Many hitchikers still come forward to give their testaments. Most are anonymous, many are faked. We know the questions to ask to weed out the groupies. Our power remains in prayer. We wait patiently our turn to be held in Father’s arms.

      • PatrickHMoore says:

        I am becoming concerned that the conversation vis-a-vis this case is going a bit far afield. I would ask that everyone comment only on the Baumeister case. Otherwise, I will be obliged to close comments on this case, Thank you, Patrick H. Moore

        • Tony Harris says:

          Mr. Moore,
          Thank you very much for the use of this forum. My sincere apologies for any transgressions. Please understand how in the past I have only watched from afar the many eronious pages of info published on this case.
          I have since been made aware that this case remains an open case. Authorities have never closed the books. I am aware that suspects do indeed pay close attention to this blog. My efforts do include stirring the pot so to speek.
          Please note that the killings have once again returned to Indiana. This time it is not gay men. Your blog and others remain very useful tools in allowing these criminals to overstep and result in inside quarreling in their ranks. Thank you again.
          The case of Herb Baumeister and Fox Hollow Farm does continue.
          You Mr. Moore, I would like very much to invite as my personal guest with a private tour led by myself onto the property. Could be that I might interest you by offering you open photography and all the material necessary for you to establish another far more sophisticated site. You see, I cannot perform recoveries myself. Authorities would only then accuse me. I desperately need talent such as yourself. Herb/Brian will indeed show you the locations of entire skeletons still on this site. I have seen them myself in summer 2016.
          My offer is made with utmost sincerety, thanks again. Call Vandergrif and Associates and leave your contact info.

          • PatrickHMoore says:

            Good heavens, Man. I know very little about this case (though it does sound interesting). At this point I’ve moved on to fiction writing and am only minimally involved with the blog. So, I must politely refuse your kind offer. Sadly, I do not have time to even read the scores of comments this case has been attracting.

            But, feel free to continue commenting. Just make a concerted effort to do so judiciously. Thank you. You appear to have a tendency to veer into the grandiose which, understandably I should say, concerns me. One of the hard lessons while running this blog has been that a surprising number of dedicated followers of true crime tend to be unstable personalities. I sincerely hope that you do not number among these ranks.

  39. Valerie says:

    Fascinating story. As an aside, I will tell you that the place you mention in your post from 5:57 is very well known to me through some historical research that I had done in the past. I had spent enough time there.

  40. Valerie says:

    M.E., as you proceed with your diary, I am waiting for some pivotal lines that will answer one of my “why” questions with regards to this case.

    • Tony Harris says:

      After taking a break from electronics I feel compelled to continue the story of Fox Hollow Farm. This is a HUGE problem. Where I have left off is the jumping place for much personal never disclosed details. Will I regret this tell all publishing effort? In the diary Herb/Brian is now nude. The shadow person in the doorway to the locker room is motioning me away. Brian invites me to take a shower, I decline. Then Brian asks if I need the men’s room. I say “Nope, gonna piss in your pool.” Yep friends, I never once allowed him both feet on the ground at the same time.

      • Valerie says:

        If you have a clear, over-arching objective for telling this tale, then you should not have a problem with proceeding. You should have such an objective, and you should state in the diary a). why you are doing this; b). why you are doing this at this particular time. In that case, you only have to reveal what is needed to satisfy the objective and don’t have to go into intimate details that may be best kept private. Hopefully, you’re not doing this to appease public opinion with regards to your person because public opinion is somewhat like a sewer and no level of information will satisfy all.

        • Tony Harris says:

          Valerie, I have always avoided any conversation or effort made at being interviewed after 1996. I was pursued by a certain party to return to Fox Hollow Farm beginning in 2007. Of course you realize what did happen in 2007. S.L.J. was killed. I refused any contact with said party until 2016. At that time I did return to Fox Hollow Farm amidst a solicitation to be televised on Ghost Hunters. I was furious with this individual. I did show up with my posse at that front door to tell this person to once and for all “Leave me alone!”. You see, Halloween is always the season in which I am harassed intensely by producers to do specials. Paranormal Witness for instance always offers me a spot. I always decline.
          My point is that all these people make money from what is my old depositions and their content. This was only spoken to F.B.I. and supposedly in confidence. Many of my interviews filmed before Herb/Brian’s death are also sold and edited to be presented as current. The only tapings that I was ever involved with were done so that we could get media attention for this case. To force the hands of authorities. I maintain that if the story is to be told then by all means allow me to tell it. Not the depositions that I censured to encourage credibility.
          If I had told the real story to authorities none of them would have ever believed me. If I had said that I had knowingly insisted that this murderer take me to Roger Allen Goodlet ‘ s resting place; what would have been thought of me? If I had said that there is this secluded mansion in what is now Carmel Indiana where there are piles of bodies left to rot in the sun; who would have believed me?
          It turns out that twenty odd years later the cover story does not hold up. I was told of fifty six dead on that property. Men women and yes one male child. Not eleven gay men. I endeavor to tell this tale now for several reasons. To make the story worthless as it is published free of charge. Mostly to encourage recoveries as I did find in summer 2016 many of the dead still linger there. I simply cannot make clear to readers how convinced I am that the murders have resumed in Indiana. Street people mostly. Drug addicts and other very forgettable persons.
          You see, I was invited. They would accuse me by invitation.

          • Valerie says:

            Bread earned on the misery of others will never feed anyone.

            Why did this cover story have to come into existence? Why couldn’t they publicly say how many were killed there? Homosexuals were marginalized in your society at the time, so why did they present this case in such a way that it is only associated with these 11 (or 8) men? People have written academic dissertations on this topic and obtained titles – they only mention these 11 men and nobody else.

          • Tony Harris says:

            Valerie, let us please mention that journalistic efforts are indeed a professional effort. Earning a liveing is not amoral. The journalists that I have dealt with can not afford their flight tickets to come to me for interviews. I often receive offers of frequent flier miles to go see them. Cheaper to fly me in than fly their crews.
            Their is much information that I simply could not depose because it would have been about my life and not the murders. Please know that I did participate marginally in the cover story. This was an Avenue I could take to survive The Others. The number of the dead was indeed kept lower I speculate because of budget issues in the county. The search was on for the video tapes. Convenient to just say Herb /Brian was spotted with them in Canada. Otherwise the search would have had to continue. The palm print found on the culvert did not match Brian’s upon his death. Easier to say that print was inconclusive otherwise this would indicate another killer. S.L.J. . Easier and cheaper to scapegoat Herb/Brian. Forensics did collect many many bits of bones. They ended up using the smallest bones, hyatil bone or wrist bone to count bodies. This use of smallest bone allowed investigators to deal with complete bones since these smaller bones did escape the crushing under the treads of the earth mover. My efforts to date are to broaden the existing investigation and also to correct the story. If I could just tell the story I would. I must be very careful in what it is I say and the context I use. I do hope that my pointing readers in the right directions that they might come to obvious conclusions. Think Larry Eyler. Think Monon trail. In my perspective it is obvious.

  41. Tony Harris says:

    When I was deposed by F.B.I. I was shown Eyler crime scene photos. Why?Eyler was dead and had been incarcerated years before. He was on death row for some years. They knew that they had Eyler ‘ s accomplice in Herb/Brian. They knew of The Professor. They knew.

    • Valerie says:

      I was referring more to the whole “Fox Hollow Farm ghost industry” than to journalists dealing with facts and trying to tell the story. I have a problem with people treating this place ‘as a cool and exciting place to indulge in their ghost hobbies.’ Tact, class and decent behavior are not virtues in today’s world anymore.

      With regards to your first post, the question then is are you going to tell the story or are you still going to remain careful? Or perhaps both in some way?

      I have a hard time understanding how somebody who appears as decent as you got involved with these people. I’m very curious about you.

      • Tony Harris says:

        Valerie, I do hope you understand that I must indeed take breaks from this. There was a time when Ghost Hunters did anger me, yes. I did believe that they predated on spirits. I cannot control what others do in this life or the next. What I can do is try to accommodate friendships made during these events. I have found only a few close relationships among many abrasive personalities in this effort. I will be at Fox Hollow Farm this Saturday in an effort to further investigate not the spectors but the world in which they inhabit. I simply do not need proof of their existance. I must navigate their world in efforts to find persons brave enough to do recoveries. I have invited you on board. Now I have indeed found another that just might be able to stand the scrutiny as I am sure media coverage will be involved. I don’t worry, to worry is a lack of faith. Hope to see you very soon Valerie.

    • Valerie says:

      The last bit of my previous post was a bit judgmental, when I promised that I wouldn’t judge. My faux pas.

      Is it true that the victims were carefully vetted to make sure that they don’t come from families that would search for them too quickly and meticulously?

      • Tony Harris says:

        This question is no grammatically correct. I am sure you mean. Did the families have the resources to search for their loved ones? There were several families whom combined resources to bring about my involvement in this case. In the result, the costs far outweighed any income generated. Many victims were simply opportunistic. Some were professionals who just found themselves in a party and others were hustlers. Ironically it was the families of the hustlers, the ones with the very least in means that made the biggest impact. They knew the streets. The homeless knew the ativities on skid row. They gave me the heads up from the first moment and continued to “Police” the city. You see, this is before crack coccain or any of this drug stuff that destroy the street people connections of today. In that time being poor was just another way of making friends and shareing.

        • Valerie says:

          I do understand that this can get very emotionally draining for you, but talking to you is like visiting the Louvre in Paris – a person never feels that they have obtained enough from the experience.

          I’m not sure what is grammatically incorrect about my question. What I was referring to was that there is supposedly one other person who claims that he escaped death because he was not taken to the house due to the fact that he came from a very prominent family in the area that would go looking for him right away. Thus, he did not pass the vetting process. My question goes beyond just the resource capability of the families.

        • Valerie says:

          I emailed my information to Mr. Vandagriff’s office, M.E. I hope that we can continue our conversation at some point when you’re ready for it. In the meantime, wishing you lots of joy and sunshine :-)

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